Christian Monotheism vs. Polytheism

So I was recently listening to the guys over on Fundamentally Flawed, a podcast I thoroughly enjoy, and they had Hezekiah Ahaz on the program for a 2nd time. Now I couldn’t make it through the first appearance of our friend Hezekiah on the Fundamentally Flawed podcast, due to the fact I couldn’t hear it over my own laughter. These Atheists did little to make a mockery out of him, so you can imagine how surprised I was to find he was back for a second round.

What surprised me even more was when they asked him about polytheistic views and he said “…if you find one, bring him on…”. Now this shouldn’t shock me, these types of claims are pretty common, from my experience, when dealing with someone of blind faith. But what truly surprised me is for close to a week prior I had been asking him questions from a polytheistic world view, and he even went as far as to say “I don’t care.” as an answer to a question. You can see the thread here.

I asked him:

“…By the way… What if I said I was bestowed my knowledge through communing with a God and Goddess through ritualistic prayer? My god stories are older than your god stories, and I actually commune with my gods, sounds like I have more room to make claims of knowledge and wisdom granted by deity than you do, you claim you don’t hear your god, yet understand what he says, are you sure he’s not speaking Spanish?”

His only response was:

“Derik,

I dont care.”

So, after I heard this response to the FF guys I decided to post how funny I found such a comment to be, you can read the full thread here. In probably a hurried and not so thought out response he challenged me to a debate of world views. His Christian Monotheist world view vs. a Polytheist world view. As someone who has believed in polytheism since childhood I welcomed such a debate. I offered it to be on the FF podcast but instead he desired it to be on Evolution of Skepticism, while normally I would prefer someone I consider an authority on a subject to be interviewed, I am also not one to back down from a challenge.

So here’s the plan, we will have a traditional debate, meaning question and answer. This will not be an argument where the one who can talk loudest wins. So here are the rules:

  • At the beginning each respondent will receive 3 minutes to present a short dialog about their world view.
  • After a question is asked each respondent will have 2 minutes to respond with their world views answer.
  • After 2 minutes the respondent will be stopped and either the next respondent will get their chance to respond or another question will be asked.
  • If a respondent interrupts the question that respondent will forfeit their 2 minute response.
  • If a respondent interrupts the answer of the other they will forfeit their next 2 minute response.
  • If we reach 2 forfeits, the debate will be stopped and will not continue.
  • Debaters cannot ask questions of the other respondent, the only person allowed to ask questions will be the moderator.
  • There will be no personal attacks towards respondents if this rule is violated the debate will end immediately.

I don’t like a lot of rules but I do believe guidelines will be necessary in this situation, and I wanted to post them to make sure everyone understood what was expected.

Now, here’s where I need help from others, I would like to receive questions that will be used in the debate. Please leave your questions in the comments below. We will only use 2 questions from each person (including 2 from each respondent) so if there are more than 2, so please make them worth it!

 

UPDATE:

The debate has been scheduled for Wednesday, May 02, 2012 @ 1 PM EDT, so if you want your questions asked please submit them prior to Midnight on Tuesday May 03, 2012.

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  1. #1 by Christopher C. Randolph on April 29, 2012 - 7:13 pm

    Um….ask him why he has never talked with God. If he did, he might stand a chance.

    Just saying

    • #2 by Derik on April 29, 2012 - 7:15 pm

      Sweet, thanks for that question! It has been added to the list!

    • #3 by Hezekiah Ahaz on April 29, 2012 - 7:54 pm

      Chris,

      Why do I have to talk to God?

      • #4 by Christopher C. Randolph on April 29, 2012 - 7:59 pm

        That is not an anwer to my question. No one has to talk with anyone. But any good relationship requires open communication. How do you expect to answer for God if you don’t know Him personally?

      • #5 by Hezekiah Ahaz on April 29, 2012 - 8:09 pm

        And who said I don’t know him?

  2. #6 by sariannya on April 29, 2012 - 8:20 pm

    What racial ethnicity is your deity?

    • #7 by Derik on April 29, 2012 - 8:21 pm

      this question will definitely be interesting to answer.

      • #8 by Hezekiah Ahaz on April 29, 2012 - 8:26 pm

        “what racial ethnicity is your deity”

        Jesus Christ was Jewish.

      • #9 by Derik on April 29, 2012 - 8:50 pm

        Hezekiah, please refrain from answering questions prior to the debate. These questions don’t need answering here.

  3. #10 by Christopher C. Randolph on April 29, 2012 - 8:31 pm

    Ask him why he thinks he knows God if he’s never spoken to Him.

    • #11 by Hezekiah Ahaz on April 29, 2012 - 8:45 pm

      Chris,

      How do you know you are saved?

      • #12 by Christopher C. Randolph on April 29, 2012 - 8:48 pm

        Answer my question first please.

      • #13 by Hezekiah Ahaz on April 29, 2012 - 8:53 pm

        Chris,

        I don’t know what you’re deal is. But your faith is being attacked and you are doing nothing about it. Chris do you believe that Christianity is a blind faith? How many gods are there?

        That’s fine Chris you can do the debate. Remember this is not a battle against human flesh but Satan and his demonic forces.

      • #14 by Derik on April 29, 2012 - 9:03 pm

        whoa whoa whoa… yes I feel 3 was needed…. uhm… I’ve never attacked Christianity as a whole, I know many Christians that I enjoy the company of. Most of my family included.
        I should also point out that I am not Satan or a demon. In fact I accept that I am a man, and a human. Because I have a different world view does not make me an offender. As Chris pointed out in his own blog, we are all humans no matter what faith we follow and if we can’t get along in this world and accept that, we are no better off than when the Bible was written.

      • #15 by sariannya on April 29, 2012 - 9:06 pm

        ::: pads up and hugs Christopher and offers an enourmous smile ::: well, i happen to believe in you Sir, you happen to know the answer to every single question out there, love.

        Simply put, if we cant love a person we have never met, we are incapable of loveing anyone. How can we judge people we dont know personaly? We cant, thus we show them love and it is returned, hopefully, and all is well.

        Hopefully :: big smile ::::

        My mom and i would collect old clothes from neighbors, cut them up and make quilts from them, at Christmas time we would take those quilts to the homeless shelter, unless we saw more needy people along the way. BEST Christmases i EVER had. Sewing bee’s for the ladies are often fun, comunity driven and spreads what people need, warmth, in all manners.

    • #16 by Derik on April 29, 2012 - 8:52 pm

      another fantastic question though I think this will have to be an amendment to your original. something like:
      Have you held a conversation with your deity/deities? If not how do you know you are enacting their will?

      How does that sound?

  4. #18 by Hezekiah Ahaz on April 29, 2012 - 9:13 pm

    Derik,

    That’s not how Christ presented Christianity.

    He’s the only way. The only name you can be saved by.

    Before God without Christ you will be found guilty.

    • #19 by Derik on April 29, 2012 - 9:25 pm

      So what is the question Hezekiah? is the question “how do you get saved via your world view?” Because if that’s the question you want to present I would be happy to add it to the list. Now the only other question that I see that could be posed here is “does your world view allow for religious tolerance?” Which again would be a great question. If either of these are questions that you want answered I would be happy to put them on the list, just let me know.

      • #20 by Hezekiah Ahaz on April 29, 2012 - 9:38 pm

        Jesus’ kingdom is not of this world.

        Men are going to do what they do.

        It’s all about the Gospel.

        Christ ate with sinners.

      • #21 by Derik on April 29, 2012 - 9:41 pm

        uhm… repeat the question please? None of those were followed by a question mark, and there are four statements. So please again, repeat the question so I have a better understanding of what I should put on the list. I do expect to be able to put these questions up on my blog prior to the debate so everyone can see them, I should know when we are going to do it after Justin and I record tonight.

  5. #22 by sariannya on April 29, 2012 - 9:21 pm

    ” I awoke to view a painless light like no other, and i knew in my heart my life was in judgement, thus all my past was laid before he and me…i was found to have done no wrong, for i knew the key to everlasting life and joy…..love father, love is the key to eternity, no death has passed my lips, no blood stained my hands, i am free.” * smiles *

    • #23 by Derik on April 29, 2012 - 9:24 pm

      That is just… beautiful.

  6. #24 by Hezekiah Ahaz on April 29, 2012 - 9:53 pm

    Yea I have some questions:

    Are you a sinner?

    How do you know your “gods” are real?

    Why don’t you believe in Christ?

    Is there evil?

    Is man evil?

    • #25 by Derik on April 29, 2012 - 10:09 pm

      Hezekiah, you did read that you only get two of these questions asked didn’t you? Maybe you can bring Comcabo, or what ever his name was from when I originally was posting on your site, to ask a couple of these also. I would be happy to add his questions. Oh and remember all questions will be asked of both respondents, so I’m not sure you want to ask a question like “Why don’t you believe in Christ?” because that would presuppose you don’t believe in Christ which is contradictory to your claimed world view.

      • #26 by Hezekiah Ahaz on April 29, 2012 - 10:21 pm

        Some more questions:

        What is truth?

        How do you know what a contradiction is?

        What is your standard of truth?

        Are the laws of rationality and logic absolute?

      • #27 by Derik on April 29, 2012 - 10:34 pm

        These are all wonderful Questions, I really hope you can either find enough people to post them for you or that you can choose just two as per the terms of the debate that I have set for our encounter.

    • #28 by Jim Gardner on April 30, 2012 - 5:28 am

      >Are you a sinner?

      What do you mean by the word ‘sinner’?

      >How do you know your “gods” are real?

      100% undeniable proof that you haven’t listened to a single thing anyone has been trying to say to you. Two 1hr 30min podcasts, three currently active comment threads on three separate blogs, each running to well over 50 comments each, and you still don’t understand why this is your truth-claim to answer for, and not ours. Seek help.

      >Why don’t you believe in Christ?

      Believing that a man called Jesus walked the earth, preaching free healthcare, peace, love and good happiness stuff, has nothing whatsoever to do with him being the creator of the universe in human form. And it is a complete non sequitur to assert as much, without providing a single shred of objectively valid evidence.

      >Is there evil?

      This is the religious word for people who aren’t religious.

      >Is man evil?

      Are men religious?

  7. #29 by Jim Gardner on April 30, 2012 - 5:20 am

    Hi, it’s Jim from Fundamentally Flawed here. Could you ask him to give you an example of when a faith based position is demonstrably weaker than one based upon objectively valid evidence? If you press him harder you’ll see that he doesn’t know the difference between the two.

    • #30 by Derik on April 30, 2012 - 8:22 am

      ah yes, I recall this question from the second time around, I will add it to the list happily!

    • #31 by rustyjustin on April 30, 2012 - 10:51 am

      Hello there Jim, I agree he does not seem to grasp conceptually the difference between reason and faith. Back over on http://bahnsenburner.blogspot.com/ he got bent out of shape when I offered this definition of faith “believing in a proposition in the absence of or counter to reason”

  8. #32 by sariannya on April 30, 2012 - 8:23 am

    Why is the owner of the podcast the ONLY participant that can read simple outlines? Every single show in HISTORY has guidelines or the bloody thing is just poropoganda. From choas bleeds no mans law or order, learn this and possibly get taken a bit more serious, as a mother of three dear i can tell you RICHARD, you are acting like a 5 year old, now straiten up read the damn rules and behave yourself, what would your mother think of how you are acting, because i tell you, you have gotten a bit rediculous.

    YOU get TWO ( 2 ) questions, PERIOD
    DERIK gets TWO ( 2 ) questions PERIOD

    Deal with it and grow up!

  9. #33 by spiritedblaize on April 30, 2012 - 2:19 pm

    If Jesus is God as portrayed by the trinity taught by Christians then why would he say My father says this.. My father says that.. in my Fathers house.. Father forgive them… Explain how you are not worshiping multiple Gods when you pray to a minimum of 2 separate entities in Jesus and God.

    • #34 by Derik on April 30, 2012 - 5:09 pm

      Wonderful question and I will add it to the list. I am uncertain how I can spin this to be asked of both of us pertaining to the two different world views, so I may have to answer this from a Polytheistic view also.

  10. #35 by Blaize Rockett (@DracoBlaize) on April 30, 2012 - 2:20 pm

    If Jesus is God as portrayed by the trinity taught by Christians then why would he say My father says this.. My father says that.. in my Fathers house.. Father forgive them… Explain how you are not worshiping multiple Gods when you pray to a minimum of 2 separate entities in Jesus and God.

  11. #36 by Óðinskin on May 1, 2012 - 1:15 am

    Why have Christians taken Heathen or Pagan holidays and turned them into Christian holy days? For example; Christmas is the celebration of the winter solstice and the new year, it’s Yuletide, NOT Christ’s birthday. All of the traditions you hold on this day, on Easter (Easter actually being the Anglicized name of a Goddess, Eostre, or Ostara) NOT the resurrection of Christ, on Valentine’s Day, May Day, Halloween, all are pre-Christian and rooted in Pagan holidays. The days of the week; Sunday (Sunna’s Day), Monday (Mani’s Day), Tuesday (Tyr’s Day), Wednesday (Odin’s Day), Thursday (Thor’s Day), Friday (Freyja’s Day), Saturday (Saturn’s Day)…I guess the real question is; Don’t you find it sinful to just go about your day to day life and celebrate your holidays?

    • #37 by Derik on May 1, 2012 - 1:38 pm

      Wow, very intense question indeed. I am happy to add it to the list, and look forward to answering it myself. I think people will be surprised at both answers I’m sure.

  12. #38 by Hezekiah Ahaz on May 1, 2012 - 7:38 pm

    Let Justin pick.

  13. #40 by sariannya on May 1, 2012 - 7:40 pm

    Pants, should women wear them or not? Why? (Elaberate please?)

  14. #41 by Derik on May 1, 2012 - 9:07 pm

    And that is the end of questioning at this point. We will review all of the questions posed to us and a final list will be posted. No other questions will be accepted at this point, we look forward to this debate and hope everyone listens in when it is published.

    Here are my questions:

    What is your Theism’s penultimate message to be delivered to those interested in knowing more?
    Is it a crime against your theism to partake in cardinal pleasures?

  15. #42 by rustyjustin on May 1, 2012 - 10:31 pm

    ok, seems I have been voted to determine which ones will be asked, Ill check this post at midnight PST and make my picks then

    • #43 by Derik on May 1, 2012 - 10:47 pm

      I actually killed it as of midnight EDT cause that’s when all the times are based around. So you can make your choice whenever you want my friend. Just be sure to post them here.

  16. #44 by rustyjustin on May 1, 2012 - 11:33 pm

    Chris

    1. why have you never talked with God. (note this question could be fallaciously complex)

    sarianaya

    1. What racial ethnicity is your deity

    2. Pants, should women wear them or not? Why? (Elaborate please?)

    Hezekiah

    1. What is your standard of truth?

    2. Are the laws of rationality and logic absolute?

    Jim Gardner

    1. Can an example of when a faith based position is demonstrably weaker than one based upon objectively valid evidence?

    Spiritedblaize

    1. If Jesus is God as portrayed by the trinity taught by Christians then why would he say My father says this.. My father says that.. in my Fathers house.. Father forgive them… Explain how you are not worshiping multiple Gods when you pray to a minimum of 2 separate entities in Jesus and God.

    Óðinskin

    1. Why have Christians taken Heathen or Pagan holidays and turned them into Christian holy days? For example; Christmas is the celebration of the winter solstice and the new year, it’s Yuletide, NOT Christ’s birthday. All of the traditions you hold on this day, on Easter (Easter actually being the Anglicized name of a Goddess, Eostre, or Ostara) NOT the resurrection of Christ, on Valentine’s Day, May Day, Halloween, all are pre-Christian and rooted in Pagan holidays. The days of the week; Sunday (Sunna’s Day), Monday (Mani’s Day), Tuesday (Tyr’s Day), Wednesday (Odin’s Day), Thursday (Thor’s Day), Friday (Freyja’s Day), Saturday (Saturn’s Day)…I guess the real question is; Don’t you find it sinful to just go about your day to day life and celebrate your holidays?

    • #45 by Derik on May 2, 2012 - 12:03 am

      I have compiled the majority of them in re-written form, for instance Chris’ is a bit different than just “why have you not talked with god”. I will post them in just a couple moments.

      Oh and you missed my questions :P

  17. #46 by rustyjustin on May 1, 2012 - 11:36 pm

    Ok, so some people only asked one or two and that made it easy, Hezekaih you asked 9! However I choose the two I think were the most interesting of the lot.

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